I have made my own bread for 20 years sticking to an adapted French recipe. It’s half wholemeal , half white with a few sultanas, seeds and olive oil so it keeps well.
I’ve always done 2 risings with about 20 mins kneading first. This morning I ran out of steam and it got a very perfunctory 5 min knead before a longish prove. I just ignore till its doubled.
Just wondered if there any other bread makers (not bread machine afficianados) could shed light on short kneading. I can tell when it’s ready to prove and it didn’t feel it to me
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I can’t help with advice about kneading but just want to say the breads look delicious! 
Anna
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The bread looks fabulous.
@Bobbi is our bread guru on here. He often shares his bread making exploits.
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Ooh will have look,have never tried sourdough Thank you
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Stroke makes activity like kneading almost impossible for me. I am so slow at mixing, beating, kneading etc that by the time it is done then it is overdone. (think gluten formation and so on)
Nowadays I manage quite nicely with a stand mixer on slow.
I weigh flour into mixer bowl, then add sugar, yeast, milk powder, cooking oil,
salt, break an egg in, then add the water (just warm) all chucked in together in that order.
I set up the dough hook and put the bowl and its contents into the machine.
Start the mixer on slow waiting until the ingredients come together, two three or four minutes.
Transfer the mixture to an oiled glass bowl, cover, and leave in a warm place until about doubled. - one to two hours.
Tip the dough out and lightly fold together, use a tiny amount of flour and shape on grease proof paper or in a tin.
Leave in a warm place again, then when risen, slash dough and bake as you normally would.
It should work well for your recipe but I can share my recipe for a small loaf just right for Hilary and I.
None of the he-man pounding, stretching and pulling seems to be necessary to produce a loaf these days.
(think of the way a bread machine turns out a loaf)
I hope this is useful.
I’m always happy to talk kitchen.
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Hi @Bobbi . Thanks for responding.Would like your recipe please, we need a change every so often. Made yummy foccacia with grand daughter about ten yrs ago but would feed family of 6!
Unfortunately no stand mixer, but I’ve just tried a slice of yesterdays barely kneaded bread, and I can’t tell the difference. Gosh all that extra exercise I’ve had for the last 20 years!!
I do have a 20 yr old neff oven with a bread setting.
You click a loaf sign and green light shows oven will heat to warm room temp or just above. I chuck a half a cup of water in the bottom and use that for the second prove. Always do first prove in coldish kitchen. Used to stick in fridge overnight and knock back next day but smaller fridge now!!
I’m not good at cakes apart from the ubiquitous banana bread 
. Discovered recently you can freeze whole overripe bananas in their skins and they defrost as squidge ideal for baking.
Wendy
Small batch loaf
Ingredients
to mixer bowl add:
345g bread flour
1.5 tsp instant dry yeast
2 tsp sugar
1.5 tsp salt
1 tbsp milk powder
1 tbsp sunflower oil
then
zero scales
add to mix:
1 egg with warm filtered water to total 225g
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Method
Weigh ingredients together into mixer bowl.
Mix and knead ingredients with dough hook in a stand mixer, at lowest speed 1 for about 3 minutes until dough just pulls together.
Leave to stand for 15 minutes.
Tip out and knead on work surface until smooth, and elastic.
Place in a lightly greased bowl and cover.
Allow to prove until doubled.
Tip out, fold and shape on grease proof paper or in tin.
Allow to rise again, 1-2 hours.
Slash loaf and bake in steam if possible, at 170°C for 20 minutes.
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my mixer - I couldn’t do without it, made by Lakeland for £250 from Amazon
I have a nice recipe for batons will share as soon as able.
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I’ve got a mixer and a breadmaker, but it doesn’t stop me fawning over others
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Thanks @Bobbi . I only use 2 teasps salt for 3lb flour. Will definitely have a go soon.
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The kneading doesn’t make a difference the way I do things, but temperature and time do cause variations.
Baking is an individual thing, some of it comes from experience and some from personal preference. I don’t believe there is one way that beats all, but it’s always useful to find out what others do, then you can pick your own way.
happy baking
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