PIP refusal, again

Life after stroke
1

I’m just SO tired of this. My third attempt at PIP, my third refusal. I’ll now make an appointment to go see Citizens Advice to see if I can appeal again, but I can predict the answer. I got 0 on everything. I can make a sandwich, but can’t cook on the stove/oven, so I’m scored 0. I don’t need someone to hold my hand when I go out, I score 0. I can get from A-B, doesn’t matter if it sometimes takes 10mins to 2 hrs longer than expected. So I score zero.

I’ve survived my stroke, looking at me I don’t look unwell, I know this. I can speak, I look like I’m fine, vision is dodgy but I’m not blind.

I was told “if I had a driving licence” it would be removed due to my vision problems. But as I didn’t have a licence to start with, I can’t apply to get a travel card…. If I could drive, and had to have my licence taken away, then I would get that travel card. It would mean I could travel again. Now I don’t. I walk places. There’s no point paying money to not get to where you’re going. Having a free pass would mean I could do things, but no… I’m not eligible.

I’m just SO tired of this. I don’t want to seem like I need help, but I’ve not been able to get a job, I’m not able to work a till, stack a shelf, I can’t drive (regardless of stroke), and working a computer is always slow, and stuff needs to be checked if it’s official, so using a pc is going backwards for me. But it’s not enough to count as a disability.

I’ve contacted charities that are meant to help, but as I don’t need a wheelchair etc, they’ve just told me to apply for PIP myself, and use citizens advice for help. Citizens advice do help, but not much, they help fill in the form, but then it’s rejected, and we’re back to the old crap.

Maybe I shouldn’t get PIP, but everyone I speak to says I should. So I try, and get nowhere, not even a point away… I’m literally not getting a point to start with.

I’m tired now. I’ll have to make another appointment for Citizens Advice. I’m not sure it’s worth it. Maybe I shouldn’t get PIP, what do others do? I’m not sure what work I’m meant to get. I’m capable, just not sure capable in what. Enough to be employed, without someone holding my hand.

:exploding_head:

4 Likes
2

Toonah - I am sorry you have had yet another rejected application for your PIP.

I am now going to share with you my thoughts and please forgive me if anything I say may cause upset. It is not my intention to cause upset, but I feel you are already upset and I would like to try to help you, perhaps to put into perspective.

I don’t know too much about your personal circumstances and the extent to which you have been affected by stroke and so cannot comment on whether you are being correctly assessed or not. I hope it has been fair and that the outcome reflects the criteria that require to me satisfied have not been satisfied. What I see is you are scoring 0 (zero) on everything and this suggests that you are not even close to getting PIP i.e. if you were to score 5 (assuming it’s out of 10) on one or more of the tests there may be hope or reason to appeal. But if you are scoring zero, perhaps you should reconsider or speak with your advisors because it seems to me someone is giving you false hope and consequently you are ending up being hugely disappointed and stressed.

I am not an expert on PIP but I understand it, it is a non-means-tested benefit designed to help the working aged people. I have never had to apply for this and don’t know anyone who has and so cannot speak from personal experience. However, I have had to apply for benefits in the past, and in general, I have found the system to be fair at least in the way it assesses the claimant, however harsh it may seem. I appreciate sometimes mistakes can happen and for that reason there is the appeals process. But for me, this would likely be on an exception basis i.e. I would not expect repeated mistakes to be made. So it may be the criteria set are harsh and difficult to meet, but this is perhaps a political problem and would require a review of the whole system.

Back to your situation, I can only sympathise but without the detailed knowledge of the exact circumstances I cannot say if you have been unfairly treated.

My conclusion based on what you have said is that you are perhaps been misled into believing you qualify for PIP by someone who doesn’t really understand what PIP is and how you qualify. I say this only because you are scoring zeros on the assessment and you have had an application and two appeals rejected. Of course, I could well be wrong and I really hope I am, but I personally feel you will only be disappointed again if you got to appeal and you are doing yourself no favours by putting yourself through this.

Please find an advisor who knows what they are talking about, who understands your personal situation e.g. your GP? And then think seriously if you really do qualify and decide how you wish to proceed.

Once again, I am sorry you are in this situation and I really hope you get the help you require.

Wishing you all the best.

:pray:

1 Like
3

I maybe shouldn’t get PIP, I’d never heard of PIP until I applied for Universal Credit, but they just told me to apply for it, but cannot help me with it.

I’ve spoken to two people who had strokes, both now get PIP. Very different people, both to each other and to me. Both of them can drive (drive to me, collecting free stuff, via Olio). One looked “normal”, no stick/limp/etc. She said she used to work for DWP…. Not sure if that matters.

The other, lovely lady. She drives, and uses a scooter rather than walk. She has a more distinctive limp, and difficulty walking, but can drive. I can see her probably being more eligible for PIP.

Maybe I shouldn’t have it. But everyone I speak to to try and get help, (other charities, help with surviving in area) all say to apply to them, then when I tell them my issues, they say to apply for PIP and to go to CA for help.

I’m not sure what I’m meant to do. I would go back to work, but I don’t feel confident I could do it without multiple mishaps, I don’t remember to take my daily medication so genuinely am not confident in working. Without being watched. But who emplyes someone they gave to watch every day.

I dunno what I’m meant to do. Each time I go for help, noone wants to help. GP sends me to specialist, specialist appointment takes like a year for first appointment and then not sure what it really did other than say I had a stroke, I have memory issues, stuff I know. So now I’m back to the beginning.

I’ve got “capability to work” saying I don’t need to apply for jobs until Jan ‘27. But then I’ll have to reapply for that, and regardless…if I get that all it means is I don’t have to go into Universal credit every 2 weeks to say I still have memory issues and sight issues. So they send me off to apply for PIP, which rejects me… Now I just have a phone call every couple (? Can’t remember know, every 2-3 months now) of months rather than a meeting every 2 weeks, but they don’t help me look for work as I have the issues to do the jobs…so just tell me to apply for PIP. Which I’m not eligible for..?

I don’t know how to get out of this loop.

1 Like
4

@Toonah really sorry to hear of your struggles getting PIP. Sadly it is not unusual for people that should be entitled to get PIP to be refused it. I don’t know whether you have completed the full appeals process i.e gone to mandatory reconsideration and then gone to tribunal but if you haven’t then I suggest that you do this.

I don’t know how you have been completing the form but things that you need to take into consideration when you complete it or can you do a task safely, can you do it in a timely manner i.e in no longer than twice the amount of time it would take a normal person to complete the task, can you do it to an adequate standard and finally can you do it reliably i.e as many times as you would need to be able to do that task throughout the day. Then you need to consider whether you can complete the task for more than 50% of the time and if you can’t then that is also part of their criteria for awarding you PIP. So as an example if you are able to walk to your local shop say a hundred meters away in the morning but by doing so you are then not able to complete other activities that day or indeed not able to return back from the shop then that is considered that you can’t complete the task. Likewise if the walk to the shop would take a normal person five minutes but it takes you 15 minutes that is more than twice the time that it takes to normally complete this task and therefore it should be considered that you are not able to complete the task.

I don’t know if you use Facebook but if you do try joining this group as they have lota of useful resources.

As much as we like to think that the pip process is fair it never seems to be the case. Something like 70% of people that go to tribunal end up being awarded PIP. That to me speaks volumes on its own. I know it is tiring and exhausting and you’re probably fed up with the system but my advice is to persevere and keep going.

4 Likes
5

I’ve applied again after refusal, but not done any tribunal stuff, not sure how to get to that stage, is it just via the form…or do I go on my own to apply for tribunal.

Maybe I should have done this before, it doesn’t ring a bell in my head at all, so I’m pretty sure I’ve never tried it, but still at the stage, how do I know if I should? Everyone tells me to apply for it, but then I’m rejected for it. Maybe I shouldn’t be trying? How do I know I should try….

I’m going to see if I can see Citizens advice on Wednesday (typical, bank holiday Monday… one day delay better not have me forgetting to do it!). I just honestly don’t know if I should get it. But if I don’t, what do I do…. I don’t know where to go next in life, every time I ask, I get told to do PIP, but what if I am not meant to have it at all…

I was thinking about what you said. I can walk for 10mins ok. But one thing that did click in my brain, last week I had to walk 30+ mins away to the vet, then managed the 30mins+ back…. But that day it knackered me. I felt achy, I couldn’t do anything else. Barely able to stay awake, not that I felt tired, just drained. I dunno. I dunno if that counts. I made 30+ mins on my own…I went to the vet on my own, I found my own way back (stick to a route, can’t remember the names of the roads even though I’ve tried to learn them). But I managed it. So maybe I don’t apply… but it shattered me that day and next, so maybe I do… :woman_shrugging:t2:

I dunno. Breath breath breath. See if I can get Citizens Advice on Wednesday. Would try Tuesday but it’s straight after Bank Hol so think Wed would be better.

I found my way to Cit Advice last time. On my way home, took a wrong turning for 40 mins till I found a way that looked familiar. But I managed. Can’t see how I get that to count, I found my way, slower, but on my own did it.

Wish Universal Credit would help. They are the ones I can see people and speak to regularly (rarely the same person, not that I know their name or anything but I always have to re-explain the issue again and again). But PIP is like a blank space. Calling them doesn’t help, I get all confused listening to them on the phone, sometimes they speak quickly or I don’t hear one word and I SHOULD ask them to repeat it, but I instinctively try and just so without, which often fails, I’ve no idea what they asked me.

But UC I can see. Except they can’t help. GP can’t help. Other docs can’t help, just give same checks and same evaluation. I dunno if I’m meant to appeal. What if I genuinely am not meant to, however many times I try. Everyone TELLS me to apply and reapply, at what point do you just stop? I dunno if I’m meant to have anything. But if I don’t, I have no idea what work I’m meant to do. I’ve now been accepted as not capable to work, until the end of this year. But what’s next.

Aaarrrrggggghhhhhh

3 Likes
6

So when you have done the first stage appeal to the DWP which is known as a mandatory reconsideration they should write to you with the outcome and in that outcome letter it should explain to you how you appeal to a tribunal. Appealing to the tribunal is probably the easiest part of the process. If you have your mandatory reconsideration letter take that with you to the Citizens Advice and they should help you with how you would appeal to the tribunal.

From what you have described about your walking it sounds to me like there’s a possibility you could get something however a lot of claiming for PIP is about knowing how to complete the form.

As well as citizens Advice there is somewhere called turn to us and they can also help you with your claim.

You can try keeping a diary for a couple of weeks which shows how you are against the descriptors that are used for PIP. Not being able to work in itself doesn’t necessarily make you eligible for PIP. Likewise being able to work doesn’t necessarily mean you’re not eligible for PIP.

I strongly advise that you do appeal to the tribunal and see how that goes. Many people who get turned down for PIP are successful at tribunal but of course there are no guarantees.

2 Likes
7

Hello @Toonah it is a good idea to go to the Citizens Advice. I have PIP for having Bipolar. You have to describe yourself at your worst. Luckily I had many pages of records from psychiatrists.. Even with that my case was taken to tribunal and a judge found in my favour. Citizens advice should know how to fill it in. Good luck.

3 Likes
8

Do you have a Social Prescriber at your GP Practice/Health Centre? Worth asking because they will help you fill in the form and advise you. When my husband applied for Attendance Allowance a lovely lady came to our house, did the forms with us and even posted it for us! It’s a free service.

3 Likes
9

Thank you. All of you. ALL. Good or bad advice, it’s good to hear all sides.

My GP doesn’t have whatever it is you mentioned. My asking for help as I’d had a stroke lead to a 6 month wait for a doc appointment (which turned into 8-9 months) then, appointment number two was 11 months later, and as a result…nothing. Except I had a stroke, bla blah blah, what we knew. They did suggest I try and get into a system to get into doing some work (unpaid) to get into the groove. I did say to them I wasn’t comfortable going to strange places, but they were suggesting something would be good and bla bla and I phased out, but no idea who they meant and I’ve not heard anything since so I’ve not chased. I’m not going to push for something I wasn’t comfortable with.

I’ve been with someone through UC that was meant to assist with medical stuff, they said that person would help filling in forms etc. by meeting 2 they’d already cancelled it, said I wasn’t suitable for their system, so good point, no more meetings to try and get work, but bad side, no help with filling in PIP or sorting things.

I absolutely still don’t know if I’m actually eligible. Part of me feels I am, but every step says I’m not. The GP won’t talk to me about anything with it. Incidentally, I joined this GP after my stroke (previous GP had moved before I was ill, so I was signed up to one closer to home for when I got out)…. So I partially think they don’t want to be part of anything. :woman_facepalming:t2: I don’t think there’s any side part like the one you mentioned. It’s never been mentioned. And my issues with sleep now have me taking anti depressants meds that I can’t stop quickly. Which, incidentally, aren’t preventing me waking up several times a night. They do mean I sleep more, which is good. Just still waking up a lot.

3 Likes
10

Toonah - Having seen the responses from the other respondents, it seems you should appeal or go to tribunal.

I feel you require some help and that has to come from someone who knows how to deal with a PIP claim as it seems “how you feel it” might determine the outcome. In so doing, I would hope that you do not end up falling foul by overstating your difficulties as I should imagine in the event they are deemed to be “deliberate falsifications”, they would likely have ramifcations.

Please do follow advise given by @Mrs5K , @Trisha2 and @jenny-wren who are much more familiar with PIP applications than I am.

My initial response was based on a misunderstanding on my part of what you had been doing without appreciating the intricacies i.e. the appeal, mandatory reconsideration and going to tribunal. All of this sounds quite tricky and I now feel, perhaps you require someone to represent you or at least check what you are doing to make sure you are giving yourself the best chance.

It may be that someone from the Stroke Association can help you. Have you contacted them?

I wish you all the best and I hope all those advising you to apply are right and that they are not just asking you to do it in the hope you might get it.

Clearly, it is disappointing that the system is flawed i.e. per Anne @Mrs5K the 70% going to tribunal are awarded the PIP.

If the above is true then this is truly shocking, however, I must qualify this because it depends on how many actually go to tribunal and if they were right to go to tribunal i.e. had they met the criteria but they had not been evaluated properly. It is hard for me to explain, but statistics can be misleading.

I will try.
Let’s say out of 100 people, 90 are rejected.
Of those 90 that are rejected 10 go to tribunal and 7 are awarded. This does indeed mean that 70% going to tribunal are awared.

However, in terms of the % of the 100 who applied and 90 that were rejected, it is only 7 out of 90 that end up with PIP and that means the % is only which is actually less than 8% !!!

So statistics can be very misleading at times i.e. in my made up example, only 8% would win an appeal rather than 70%. I haven’t seen the data that shows 70% win their appeals, but personally I would be very surprised if this was the case because if it was, everyone would go to appeal and then ultimately everyone who applied would almost certainly get the PIP.

I believe this requires someone much better qualified than me to help you and I wish you every success, but I feel for you and I would hate to raise your hopes when you appear to be banging your head against a brick wall.

One thing you might want to consider is talking to your MP.
Explain what is happening and get them to help you.
Healthcare system is broken - get it fixed. Talk to your MP.

I am sorry if my input is not helpful, however, I really hope you get the best outcome possible. The situation you are in is horrible and it is a shame you are stuck in a loop.

Have a lovely weekend and best wishes for next week.

:pray:

1 Like
11

@Toonah - do you have friends or family who can help you? They might be better placed, but if not, try your MP.

1 Like
12

I live with my dad still. Which is ridiculous, I’m 46… :joy:

He’s nice and all, he tries, but he doesn’t know what to do. I had a minor break down earlier today, one of those things when the walls came in, I wanted to cry and so…but I never seem to. So just smashed my fists into a pillow whilst clutching the stupid rejection letter as I tried to figure out my next step.

I don’t have anyone to help me with this. I don’t think my dad can. It’s not that he doesn’t want to, but it’s not his thing, and he’s older now. I’m struggling focusing him on random household stuff that urgently needs to be done (as my fund in bank will not cover the repairs) and he nods but doesn’t really talk about it. But that’s a different issue. There’s noone else around that can help with this sort of thing. The stroke meant I lost touch with many friends, I don’t see them anymore. I’m not comfortable going to them as I keep getting lost, and I hate having them only come to me, so now I just don’t see them. We talk online, email, etc. but they’re not in my life anymore. I’m much more comfortable with that then trying to seem normal around them. It makes sense in my head :zany_face:

I still don’t know for sure that I am eligible for anything. You didn’t say anything wrong at all, it could still be that everyone else is wrong telling me to try. I’ve no idea. That’s what really bothers me. But PIP is all I’ve got to consider, so it’s all I cling to. Without it, I’ve absolutely no idea where my UC will go eventually. Maybe I do have to go back to work, but noone will tell me what work I should try and do. Everyone says just to get PIP, not what to do if PIP doesn’t work. And it’s possible PIP will never work for me. Regardless of if I’m eligible or not, it could be I’m one of the percent that just doesn’t get it. But I don’t know what I’m meant to do with myself without it.

1 Like
13

Tribunal is key here. PIP assessors are notoriously dismissive and contradictory. You may need to focus purely on what it is like on a bad day as if that is every day. I can make a sandwich but on a bad day it is unlikely I can even eat and have even gone several days without food during heavy symptom periods. The assessors want you to give up because they get bonuses for each rejection, so I am to believe, so it is in their interest to reject you. It’s a flawed system, made worse by the pandemic when most assessments were moved to being held over the phone. If you feel in yourself you need the financial support to assist with your condition, I say stick with it.

4 Likes
14

Ok Toonah - I think you should try to do as the others suggest, keep on trying, but build a strong case.

Below I have tried to find a few things that may helps you :slight_smile:

Wishing you all the best.

:pray:

3 Likes
15

@Toonah at this stage you have nothing to lose by going to tribunal as @Rups says the tribunal is key here they are independent to the DWP and they will apply the legislation as it is meant to be applied. The DWP sometimes don’t apply their own legislation.

No one can tell you whether you are eligible for PIP or not. You need to have a careful look at the descriptors which are readily available on the internet and see which apply to you. You then need to spend your time building your evidence up for each descriptor that you feel applies. So, for example if you need supervising when preparing and cooking a meal you need to build your evidence up to show this. Don’t forget the safely, timely, to an acceptable level and reliably criteria and you should cover this in any evidence that you provide. For example if you are prone to dropping hot saucepans this would class as being unsafe and therefore would fit into the safely criteria in preparing and cooking a meal.

If you haven’t already I would suggest you ring the PIP helpline and ask for a copy of your assessors report. This is more detailed than the letter that you will have received. You can then go through this report highlighting anything that you think is inaccurate and then you can use that as part of your evidence for the tribunal. If you have consultant letters, GP letters, a copy of your medical records these are all good evidence that you can submit. You can also submit letters from friends and family that help you out. They can describe the help that they provide.

It’s important to remember the 50% criteria so just because you can do something two days a week (but can’t the rest of the week) doesn’t mean that you can do that activity. You need to be able to do it for more than 50% of the time for it to be considered that you can complete that activity.

As @ManjiB says do not exaggerate as this will only get you into trouble should you be found out later down the line.

You apply for the tribunal online and once you have applied you are then able to upload as much evidence as you have. This can include things like little videos of perhaps you walk in if mobility is an issue. Or you can upload pictures of AIDS that you need or have to help you complete the tasks. It is unlikely that your GP will help you complete the pip form this is not within their remit and even if they did do it it would cost you a lot of money and probably wouldn’t be to the level of evidence that you would require to meet the criteria for PIP.

With regards to finding work only you really know what is within your current capabilities and maybe you could start with looking for something voluntary. I know people for example who do half a day a week in a charity shop or you could look at some online volunteering and just see how you get on. This would give you a good indication as to whether you may be able to return to work in the future. Citizens Advice will also be able to advise you on any other benefits that you may be entitled to.

Good luck with all of it.

Ann

4 Likes
16

I was advised when looking at filling in these forms you should avoid describing your performance in the best times.

It is more realistic to describe your difficulties.

Maybe you can make a sandwich but what happens when you are not at your best? Do you just go to bed and skip lunch or whatever?

The adjudicator can only assess from your description whether it is accurate or not.

3 Likes
17

Thank you - everyone. Good advice, or even the unsure advice, it’s all advice.

I will try and start a diary, I’ve got to figure it out… I have such a ditzy memory, I can tell myself to write things down, then within 10mins have put down the pen and paper and so forget to do it. But I want to do the diary, and write things in a note book. I’ve told myself I’ll start it on Monday. And write down everything, stuff I want to remember, stuff I’d done wrong, etc etc. Issue is the stuff I forget or do wrong, I sort of kick myself mentally for forgetting, then move on… but don’t remmeber to note down the issues. I’m genuinely considering getting a pen attached to string to put round my wrist, I just lose pens ALL the time. And papers… if I go out with a shopping list I’ll lose the list. Or I have the list, look at it, see it says “bread”, forget to pick up the bread… then walk off. Then come home wondering why I haven’t bought bread when it’s on the list I’m clutching. I can’t predict what will go wrong (I’ve lost the list, I’ve lost the pen, I’ve lost both, etc etc etc). I try explaining this, but it’s not something they pay attention to I don’t think. I’m constantly told to write things down by UC, and so am constantly saying the different issues… so I can’t predict. And I can’t write it in my phone as if I hold my phone, I put that down whilst looking at something…

I will find some string, and attach a pen to one wrist, and a small notebook to another, and I want a week of just remembering where they are. I’ll probably still forget that I’m hanging things off myself to remember to write things down…. it’s not as simple as I first assume. :laughing: I try and laugh at myself, because it is so stupid to be such a lemon with remembering things. I’m going to look a right plonka but I will have book on left, and pen attached to right wrist!

Advice here seems so clever, and I’ve no doubt read it before, in replies to others, in replies to previously saying I’ve applied and been rejected for PIP.

I can’t figure out why I’ve never tried the tribunal stage… I know I’ve applied to try a re-appeal, I’ve had a large document with the papers saying their answers…. I’ve filled out those, highlighted what was wrong in them, written notes saying why wrong, and sent it off, but I don’t think “tribunal” is specifically what I’ve done. Or how to start that, is it me just telling them “I’d like to go to tribunal” or do I have to do it myself seperately? I’m sorry - I’ve no idea if I’ve asked this before. I don’t think so, but I don’t know.

I’m getting such a headache atm. Apart from this, I’ve a foreign banking issue to deal with, and British Gas hasn’t gone down in price as they said they would (well, they did on the 3rd… but no other day). I’m trying to sort those things out too, and I can’t remember or do much at the same time, I keep forgetting, the head turns to mush… and asking my dad to help is difficult. He’s older, tbh I’ve no idea if he has memory problems from age, I think he does, but I can’t quite tell because I can’t remember enough to check on him…

:dotted_line_face: I’m not too great with the world. And it’s now a bank holiday which never helps, I want to try and get things done now now now, but must wait for Citizens Advice, and my brain :face_with_peeking_eye:

3 Likes
18

Try not to panic, if successful at the tribunal you will be back paid from your first assessment. I knew of a chap who was back paid for three years as it took him that long to have his claim rewarded. You can take notes into the tribunal and it might be worth having someone there to support you. Just don’t take your pocket knife with you as I did, it was confiscated by the security staff and I never saw it again.

2 Likes
19

You have to start the process yourself. Citizens Advice will be able to help but you can also have a look at this link. It does say that you have to apply within one month of your mandatory reconsideration notice but, if you have a good reason, you can appeal up to 13 months afterwards.

2 Likes
20

Pocket knife :joy: ok now I know what I want to bring if I have one… I don’t have a pocket knife…

“Dear Santa, please can I have a pocket knife to scare the bahjeebus out of anyone at PIP”

:mrs_claus:t2:

3 Likes