Next steps. I may have been looking in the wrong place

I’ve been seeing an OT since June last year. I think we’ve gone as far as we can now. She’s a bit baffled over why I’m still in so much discomfort with my shoulder and neck after all the work we’ve done and also the fact that things like massage and hands on work with the arm actually make it worse. She’s been speaking about FND overlaying the stroke symptoms, convinced this is the problem but after reading about it, I told her I couldn’t relate to it at all. She initially didn’t want me to see a neurologist, saying she was afraid I’ll be written off because I’ve had a stroke and that I deserved more than that, especially as she’s seen lots of improvements. But when she started focusing on FND, she changed her mind. So I got on the waiting list - 8mth wait in my post code - told my GP I can’t wait that long, and had my first appointment recently. The most disturbing aspect was my BP which was sky high. I was seen immediately despite being 15 mins early and I told the nurse it would be high because it had been an effort to walk to the clinic and here she was taking my BP without me even having a chance to catch my breath!! Then the doc thought I was there for something completely different. Fortunately, I’d gone well prepared with diagrams and clear information but the young man didn’t know what to do with it and had to go find the consultant to help. Although she was very nice (the consultant), she went into a diatribe about what had happened to me, all stuff that I am already very aware of. She finished by saying my symptoms are residual from the stroke , should improve in time and to keep doing what I’m doing. And that it’s definitely not FND! She’s booking me in for a CT scan just to check there’s nothing else going on, as in, have I had another stroke? Oh, and the usual pushing of statins that I always refuse because I don’t need them - my lipid panel is really, really good - but they’re obsessed! And when I got home, my GP rang to discuss some things I could do while I was waiting for a neurology appointment to become available. So no-one knows what’s going on because communication is so poor. It was actually all very stressful so I was whacked out and had to rest for the remainder of the day. Needless to say, the appointment was a waste of time. I was hoping to be offered an MRI of the shoulder and neck area, mostly to see if there’s any nerve compression, and although an MRI was mentioned, I said it would need to be an open one as I’m claustrophobic. It was then she decided on a CT scan (cheaper, of course). I was going to decline but decided I need to stay engaged with neurology, just in case I can persuade them I might need their services.

Anyway. I still believe the shoulder and neck pain can be fixed. The numbness in my arm and side is abysmal, pins and needles constant, but touch is equal to the opposite side. The arm and hand are pretty much fully functional although I can see that some movements aren’t quite right. I’m now thinking I will try a chiropractor for the shoulder and neck pain, some of which I’m convinced is down to posture (and possibly tight fascia). Has anyone had any good results with a chiropractor ?

One thing I absolutely hate about having had a stroke is that I seem to be totally self absorbed much of the time, trying to find solutions to the problems :flushed_face:

Trace

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Just a thought, has your shoulder had any x-ray/scans to see if there is any tear in the muscle/detachment from bone. In which no amount of massage or physio will repair that. It would probably have to operated on be repaired/reattached.

I’m only suggesting this because it sounds similar to an issue my sister had with her shoulder. She’d originally thought it was just a pulled muscle from golfing. But as it got worse over time, it turned out that all the physio and massage had just caused further damage and had to be operated on to reattach muscle to bone or whatever it was.

Worth looking into if it hasn’t been already🙂

Lorraine

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Hello Trace - I am so sorry you are experiencing this, but I am not totally surprised as it seems to me this is part and parcel of being being a stroke survivor and possibly having to rely on the NHS which is not fit for purpose any more imho.

Right now I am unable to put into words anything that might help you and so will just suggest, pleased do keep trying and looking for solutions. They do exist and it will almost be down to you to find them or to steer the professionals in the right direction as they do not have a clue and/or they may be constrained by their pay masters. Whilst it should not operate as a business, regrettably, I believe it does as there isn’t enough funding available. Also, it is a lottery and depending on where you live will determine the quality of support you might enjoy. Further, the people you come across will also be in the pot luck category as in they may be good and will be able to offer some help albeit under constraints put upon them or they will be dreadful and in the worst case they may string you along - this being the case if you are self-funding as there is no incentive for the NHS to string you along.

I am sorry I can’t offer you much more in terms of positivity, but I note Lorraine @EmeraldEyes has suggested getting an x-ray to see if there is a muscle tear. I would suggest this could be the first step in you steering the professionals in the right direction. I think an x-ray is the least your GP can offer you. Try it and see :slight_smile:

Take care and keep plugging away.

:pray:

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I sometimes feel the same, then I remind myself that I’m just trying to find ways to live a productive life and to be there for my family and everyone that I care about. I’m sure your motivations are similar, so don’t feel bad about it.

As for chiropractors, I’ve used them and have my doubts that they actually made much of a difference. It was nice to be able to talk to someone about whatever problem I was trying to solve, but that was it really.

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That’s a good point, but I had an X-ray in January 24 and all it showed was some appropriate age related changes. The OT, physio and osteopath I’ve seen have all said the same thing - that it’s as though my nervous system never shuts down in that area and can’t relax. I can consciously relax the shoulder and am getting better at remembering to do it but the stroke has probably highlighted something I was doing long before the stroke. Tension, stress :woman_shrugging: And actually, the neurologist mentioned that the position of my arm wasn’t helping - she suggested resting it on a pillow when I’m sitting down and since I’ve been doing that, I’ve noticed the arm stays in a relaxed position instead of raising up by the elbow so my hand is just below the side of my face. I’m aware that some of what’s going on is neurological but an MRI could either confirm or rule out if anything else is going on. Thanks for your response :blush:

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Me too, Trace ; I give it 100% but now I am in love with my recovery (not long ago I dreaded it, just like you) The reason I love it, me, life is because I now have answers)- but like you, every time I saw medics I had the same experience as you; I found I was a lot more clued up than they were. A typical post-stroke scenario.

One day, I queried DeepSeek ~(it’s AI and Chinese, so 10 years ahead of us in the UK in terms of stroke knowledge / experience) and I showed the conversation to my Radiologist (On the same scale a GP is 5-6/10 and a Radiologist is 8-9/10 but he is also a friend who I can chat to whenever I like.. in fact he treats me with equal status declaring I’m a scientist at heart) and he was

  1. gob smacked (because he had no idea the conversation he read was with AI)
  2. he thought the answers were brilliant, and that no neurologist would surpass this level of answer
  3. thought that it was a good tool I could lean on for future use (paraphrasing)

You might know that I have embraced Qigong, Earthing and anything that donates me an electron plus read 120 books of Western / mainstream + Eastern / TCM medicine. I have had to look far and wide for answers and I have found every answer and pathway to work at (I’m not claiming to instantly fix) the problems. For instance this morning Larry (a nerve in my foot was stinging badly - I knew it would be, since this is a CNS problem!) Well guess what, with my favourite pathway, in 45’ I was pain free. At least that. Then I did something called ‘mud walking’ which I am about to do a clip on. It completely changed my perception of the ground, and the universe around me. Change ourselves inside, and we change the world outside.

The answers we seek lie within us ; you can gain clues, follow pathways and gain experience (so you are not alone), but only you alone can make those steps. If anyone does it for you, you can build on that, but the results themselves do not stand up for long.

Do you know about bowler’s posture after stroke? Our centre of balance change (one of my therapists is for craniosacral). I used to see a chiropractor. By the way my arm subluxated after my stroke thanks to yoga teacher. Do you know about high guard posture & primitive reflexes for your arm? Good that your touch is in full working order. I’m with you on statins. I’ve rambled on enough, but if you’d like to do a live chat online tomorrow at 6 pm do let me know. PS. I wonder if you saw my Glycocalyx post? Good luck,

Ciao, Roland

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Thank you for that @harimanjaro. I’ve just come back from a walk with my ‘therapy assistant - she’s filling in while my OT is on maternity leave. We’ve had a good chat and she’ll relay back to my OT and the PT my concerns. I know they’re all a bit bewildered because they’ve remarked before that everything they’ve been doing should be helping more than it has been.

My husband saw a chiropractor some years ago after 2 years of pain and walking with a stoop after trying to lift a safe on his own (oops!). He came home out of pain and perfectly upright after just one session although he needed a few more for ‘fine tuning’. It seems to work for some, not for all. I’m interested in others’ experiences- it might help me not to waste my money. So thank you for your perspective.

Trace

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Good point. Trace should check out her glenohumeral (GH) joint — the primary ball-and-socket joint of the shoulder. It’s a key structure for upper limb mobility. I managed to subluxate mine after stroke… slowed me down a few months.

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I’m with you :100: @ManjiB. I’ve no desire to use the NHS but not having an endless supply of cash, where else is there to go? I pay privately for what I can and the only reason I can afford it is because I get PIP, a full state pension and have a husband who is 10yrs younger than me in full time employment. I count my blessings - financially it’s been a lot easier since the stroke and life is far less stressful because I’ve been forced to slow down and take more care of myself. They’re the positives and although I was always thankful for what I perceived was my good health, I stupidly believed I’d be like my Mum who’ll be 88 this year with no health issues and still jets off to warm places in the winter with her friends. How can I not be both happy for her and maybe a little envious at the same time…….

Anyway. Yes, I will keep looking for solutions. I know the answers are out there, I just have to find them. I have a young friend - an ‘adopted daughter’ who very recently remarked “ Maybe this is just it for you now. Sad, I know, but it’s been going on a long time”. Comments like that spur me on - I don’t want to ever give up!!

I’ve missed being on here - it’s so uplifting chatting with you all again :heart_eyes: There’s lots for me to catch up with!

Trace

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I think maybe I should just get another Xray - it could be a good starting point. @pando @EmeraldEyes @ManjiB

Trace

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I’d recommend you book a Zoom session with this guy. If anyone can sort you out he can. https://fitness4lifephysio.com/

I do his Zoom stroke class every sweek, and have done for ages. He really knows his stuff.

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Hi @Trace57 having read through this and having both neck and spinal issues as well as ongoing pains in arms, neck and head at times all seemed to be exacerbated post stroke.The headaches were spectacular in fact topped any pain I’ve ever had before painkiller barely touched the sides.

I was more than a wee bit scared in fact took me back to another stroke ward, it was there I was told I have a stenosis in C5 to C6 and can cause some pain. Thing is this radiates from my neck all over and can make me cry quite literally- learning to manage but only for a second MRI would never have known. Sorry I cant offer any solution but can empathise it’s not being self -absorbed more like self aware and desperate to be fixed, I think we can see the physical effects but the mental ones are longer and deep rooted which clearly take more time. Good luck and hope you get the right answer for you soon.

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J would definitely start with an xray as 2024 is a long time ago and things could have changed. Nothing to lose & fairly quick way of ruling something in / out.

I have been “diagnosed” with FND since having my stroke. It covers a whole multitude of symptoms/conditions but to be diagnosed you need to see a neurologist & there should be a positive test result for it rather than someone saying it is that because they have ruled out other obvious things. For example a positive hoovers test.

I have never used a chiropractor but my hubby did years ago & they never sorted his issue. However i am sure it will depend onbthe specific problem & outcome would be different for everyone. It id many years since hubby saw one too so treatments will have no doubt advanced in that time too..

Best wishes

Ann

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Me too ; but I have since discovered so much more, that I can see problems have a knock on effect - you could say they are indirectly caused by stroke… it’s a question of one system having an impact down the line. What was once FND is now clearly explained how things logically come to be. You have to turn into Sherlock Holmes and dig deep to find the fault line and trace the history of a prob

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I wish I could be in love with my recovery, @pando :laughing:

Yes, I did see your glycocalyx post and I watched your video on sulphur yesterday and I’ll reply to that separately :grin:

I’m aware of all you do to help your recovery and I learn from it. I did a fair bit of grounding last Summer and I’m looking forward to doing plenty more as soon as it stops raining and warms up a bit. I’d need help to do what you’ve done to be able to ground indoors and hubby is too busy with work and other things so I’ll pass on that for now.

I’ve got the same red light panel as you. When used consistently, I definitely notice an increase in energy.

I tried Rolfing with a certified advanced rolfer in Tunbridge Wells - just a few miles away from me. He’s also a certified somatic experiencing practitioner. I attended just 2 sessions of Rolfing and decided to stop because I was also having self funded physio and wanted to concentrate on one therapy at a time. But also, and this might sound strange, the Rolfing was bringing some difficult emotional stuff to the surface and making me tearful. I didn’t feel able to fully confront it so by stopping the sessions, I was also sort of running away. But maybe it’s all connected to what’s going on in my body now (numbness/pain) :woman_shrugging:t2:

Like you, I keep looking for answers. Being an over thinker can be both a blessing and a curse. Using it positively will take me down lots of rabbit holes , some from which I can glean a ton of useful information. All that useful information is processed and the bits that might help are noted down and explored further. It’s a never ending trail of learning and I never seem to tire of it. I’m thankful I have the time for it!

You mentioned Larry, a stinging nerve in your foot. I think I may have a Larry too, on the top of my foot near the ankle. It’s intermittent but it definitely stings and feels peripheral. The skin reddens in the general area when it stings. The neurologist was not at all interested. I use calming essential oils to treat it - they work!!

Looking forward to your video on mud walking but I shall have to explore this sooner :grin:

I know nothing about bowlers posture but I listen to the Bowler Hat farmer on YouTube😆 and I know nothing about high guard posture and primitive reflexes but all of this sounds worthy of further investigation.

Do I want to do a live chat tomorrow? Right now, I’m up for it, but tomorrow is another day. I hope I can manage it. I’ll check in tomorrow.

You’re blessed to have your radiologist friend. We’d all like to have someone like that in our lives, I should imagine.

Here’s to more seeking and finding.

Trace

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I used to see a chiropractor, after a riding accident, and thoroughly recommend it - if you can find one that is MacTimoney trained go to them. I’d be seeing mine still if he hadn’t retired.

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Bless you for your deeply meaningful post Trace. I imagine the gist of it is very familiar to stroke survivors. There’s only a small fraction on my channel. There are many subjects that I study live and breathe daily still not covered. Slowly I will fill in !

These last 2 years I have learnt all the answers that nobody could answer ; not my Radiologist, my Chinese Dr, my Craniosacral Dr, my 2 stroke-physios, my Psychologist, my Bio-mechanic ; my Chiropractor my Massage Therapist, my Bowen/Rolfing Therapist… my Ophthalmologist… okay there are a few I have not mentioned. None of them lived the journey I did so do not have the knowledge and experience I have ; each would admit that, readily.

I’ll pass on my pathways to help others, otherwise I’m happy to focus on myself. No fret about tomorrow ; I’ll have a wonderful day & hope you do too !! ciao, R

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Thanks for that. It’s encouraging. I’ll be weighing things up for a while. It’s good to hear other people’s experiences :grin:

Trace

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Thanks for that. I didn’t know you have an FND diagnosis. The neurologist I saw said nothing about tests , but made an emphatic statement, several times, to the tune of “ It’s definitely NOT FND.” I don’t want it to be FND but also wonder how she can be so sure after seeing me for only 10mins :woman_shrugging:t2:

I’ll book another X-ray - as you say, things can change significantly in 2 years. And I’ll keep gathering info re the chiropractor - it’s really just another idea for now.

Trace

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You definitely have to be a bit like Sherlock Holmes like you say. My stroke triggered FND apparently. I haven’t really any tests or seen any specialists to get it confirmed although some of my issues “fit” the FND picture. The stroke team did do the hoovers test and said from there I have FND. But as I understand it it should be a neurologist that confirms it. I’ve never pursued it as doubt it’d make much difference and I can work on rectifying it with all the resources that are out there.

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