Catching the elusive zeds

I thought I might apprise everyone with my current sleeping routine as it may be of benefit to others or, at the very least, cause drowsiness from having had read this post. Either way, as I said, a possible benefit. For the last five years, I’ve had two foremost states of being; either too tired or too wired. For the last three years, I’ve made a bedtime tonic, the original recipe was green tea, lemon, ginger, turmeric, magnesium glycinate and apple cider vinegar. Then two years ago, when I had a substantial herb garden, I started to alternate fresh herbs like common feverfew, lavender, rosemary and sage. When I was a child, I used to make witches brews, I guess I’ve never grown out of it. The point of the tonic is to have a calming nighttime brew that caps the end of my day. Over the years, I altered the recipe in the hope it might also provide me with a sleep aid. I knew that the magnesium would boost melatonin production and lavender boosts GABA activity, but I was still struggling to get to the land of nod. My circadian rhythms well out of tune, I was getting my eight hours; just at unexpected times. Fast forward, 2025, adjusted tea recipe to include star anise and camomile. I persisted with this addition for about six months but wasn’t feeling sleepy or, particularly, relaxed. Now I recognise that a good sleep routine is more than sedation, but it’s a catch twenty-two, a good routine is pointless without sedation and sedation is pointless without a good routine. That is, you can set your nighttime routine sensibly to adhere to best practice, but if you’re still awake by 6 am it makes for a long stretch of nocturnal suffering and if you achieve sedation without a good routine, you end up falling asleep at arbitrary hours which impedes one’s daily/nightly schedule. I have a fairly best practice routine, I make sure my bedroom is cool and dark, I read a book for an hour, I put on soothing ambient music, I use lavender oil as a calming scent and then it all goes to pot.

Feeling drowsy yet? Good. I’ve always appreciated sleeping pills when I’ve been allowed to have them. GPs rarely prescribe these, I’ve had about three prescriptions over my lifetime and that lovely, drowsy feeling was a welcomed sweet spot after long periods of insomnia. I have benzodiazepines at hand for panic attacks but save those only for my panic disorder as I only get a limited amount and being that my insomnia is a nightly occurrence I’d soon drain that resource dry pretty quickly and have nothing to quash severe panics when they erupt. For a period in 2024, I experimented with strong CBD oil, and then CBD crystals to nil effect. A friend encouraged me to try the smokable form for a week, ended up feeling spaced all night and then groggy the next day. Wasn’t for me. Neurological fatigue can actually be painful if one can’t sleep. I gave valerian root supplements a go, but these, I suspect, were full of additives. I persisted with them until I got tired of taking them for the sake of taking them and tired not in the way I wanted. I added tulsi to my tonic, hearing positive notes about holy basil, alas wholly ineffective. Fatigue, I imagine, plays a role in my insomnia. I can feel fatigued by 10 pm, prepare everything for bed, settle myself down as my brain is drained and then stay awake until 4 am. It’s cruel.

At last I figured I had to synthesise the effects of a benzodiazepine, using herbs. I had to create a CNS depressant, or closest to, with herbs that react in a similar way to their chemical counterparts. It all came down to GABA (the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain), this neurotransmitter is the warden of chemical messages and nerve cells, inhibiting over-excitability and suppressing nerve riot. Having a beer will inhibit neuronal signalling, the same as what GABA does.

Even if you are now fast asleep, I will continue writing. To stitch a short story long, I did a bit of research and came to the conclusion that I had to combine a number of herbs that would work in harmony with each other. I came to understand that valerian boosts GABA levels and Skullcap boosts weak GABA connections, so these two working together should, in theory, provide a decent sedative. Not as formidable as their chemical counterpart but effective enough for me. I made sure this time I purchased pure valerian root, not this capsule business where the contents could be talcum powder for all I know. I did get skullcap (the Chinese variety, not the North American plant, although both are used for similar purposes) in capsule form but am trusting British Supplements to adhere to their ethos and ethics. At first, I put a teaspoon of valerian root and a whole skullcap capsule in my nighttime tonic. I fell asleep alright but also found I slept all through the next day, I was so groggy I couldn’t stay awake. I am to understand that large doses of valerian can do this, a herbal hangover if you like.

So, before you wake up, I have to say that I have been trialing this in my tea now for several weeks and have been able to fall asleep and wake up relatively early feeling alert. I haven’t always achieved a full eight hours but I suspect the time I am sleeping, I get a good dollop of REM which means I wake up feeling a bit more with it. I am also practicing VDK to help tame ghoulish thoughts. Who knows, it might just be the VDK and not the herbs :joy:. In any case, the verdict is still not, entirely, in as to whether this recent tonic blend is helping, I like to give something a rigorous test before I announce efficacy to myself as I am a born skeptic. The dreaded insomnia may return and I’ll just have to sigh Sod’s Law to it all.

As a caveat, some of these herbs, and whatnot, can interact with Clopidogrel, so I am doing this with that in mind. However, it seems nearly everything interacts with Clopidogrel so I suspect it comes down to quantity and length of use that matters as well as mg strength of Clopidogrel and at what time these are all ingested. Another caveat is that what is seemingly beneficial for one person may not be for another, as some of what I have written above indicates. What is helping me may not help others, it’s more about how to approach a problem rather than what is involved in providing a solution to that problem. That’s the way I see it.

So now that you are, probably, peacefully comatose, I shall end this post, satisfied that if my adventures into the realm of snooze hasn’t inspired others, then at least it has provided a good sedative for a catnap.

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caffeine keeps u awake so I have no green after 3pm

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as does the Rosemary

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Earthing regulates cortisol levels and synchronizes them with the Earth’s rotation. There’s a famous scientific study / paper that describes this experiment
The Earth’s Role in Circadian Regulation: Grounding to Set Daily Cortisol Pattern Laura Koniver MD*

“bedroom is cool and dark, I read a book for an hour, I put on soothing”

a good bedtime routine and encourage body temp to drop 1 degree (in my thyroid clip)

Having a beer will inhibit neuronal signalling, as does magnesium

GOOD POST Rups… but I’m in a hurry, sorry

meditate and through the pineal gland you can make melatonin is a technique I use.

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I cut out the green tea for that reason. It was part of the original tonic but even though it has less caffeine than black tea and I only put in half a teaspoon, it wasn’t going to help with dulling my brain of a night.

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I love rosemary flavour in tea and look forward to reintroducing it to my brew once I get some plants going here. :potted_plant:

Just an addendum on this response, although rosemary and lavender are mildly antagonistic, valerian is by far the most direct (apart from kava and I have no desire to inflame my liver anymore than I do). So, the idea is to boost the efficacy of valerian with skullcap, and maybe adding camomile and lavender in the future to create a truly soporific bedtime tonic.

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I have green / black late morning… ceremonial grade is a must otherwise it contains fluoride, because green tree Camellia Sinensis is a hyperaccumulator and soaks up everything, good or bad

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Can’t not change from Gunpowder Green, have been drinking it regularly since a child (same brand!) Even brew it, cool it and drink it in Summer. :joy:

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Well, well, well. My post has had the opposite effect on you and given you more energy :joy:

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Aye, and there is magnesium in beer too … “Magnesium (Mg2+) is a mineral naturally present in water and grain. It is one of the most important ions for fermentation performance.” to quote the brewing-pedia.

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I’ clueless about beer because I don’t drink beer - but I do cider - because it’s alkaline. And a glass of Red Primitivo on the weekend (for medicinal purposes only)

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Here’s what the pineal gland has to offer

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That was incredible reading and I must admit that many of the tests and trials I have had tries with and learned a lot of tricks to control thoughts to make sleep possible but am now not in the financial position to control my life to that degree. There is also the problem that I am 96 years old and have to put up a lot with how others allow me to behave and make experiments.

Time I handed in my dinner pail! but not prepared to do that ! Have copied Rup’s letter and will print it out for later reading.

Deigh

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At 96 Deigh, I wouldn’t start experimenting with this and that, you’ve done a tremendous job getting to where you are today without fiddling around with the controls. VDK, however, is a non-invasive psychological exercise for managing ghoulish thoughts.

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Rupert - If I may interject here, @Deigh I don’t know you and so I cannot categorically say that this would apply but I feel that age (chronological) should not be used to determine certain things in life. How well do you feel is more important than how old you are.

There are many pensioners running around and in much better health both mentally and physically and so personally, I don’t look at my age to decide what I can and can’t do (legal restrictions must be respected - they are there for a reason, but even then there may be exceptions, but that is an altogether another topic for discussion).

You at 96 didn’t get to where you leading the sort of life you are by worrying or thinking about age. I know my Mum also didn’t get where she is thinking about her age. It’s how you choose to live and what you choose to accept as limitations and what you choose to challenge. It is not straightforward and requires good management and self-awareness, knowing how far and for how long to push yourself.

I expect we may have to disagree to agree on some things.

Wishing you all the best.
:pray:

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I think Deigh was specifically talking about experimenting with herb combinations (as with my sedation tonic) because as we get older our bodies don’t react or have the same bounce back that we had when younger, a more cautious approach is taken. In the same way I was hesitant to get on a skate board last year when a skater allowed me to try his board even though I had been a competent skater in my youth, at my age now and without practice, I did stand on the board with him holding me steady, but didn’t attempt to ride it lest I cracked me old bones.

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Never heard of it! Think its time I found out what it means!

Deigh

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What? VDK? I have posted about it here if you fancy a read.