Caring for elderly stroke patient

Hi I am new to this forum and am writing in hope that some of you may have had a similar experience and can share sone wisdom and advice.

My mother is 77 years old and is in care home after a stroke. She is now bedridden but is conscious. She tries to say things but it’s very difficult to understand most of what she says so she gets frustrated and gets angry sometimes. Other times she cries a lot because she says she is lonely and afraid. I would like to learn some techniques and get some tips from experienced carers on how to ease her pain in the last days of her life.

I have done things that I think help her such as decorating the wall by her bedside with family photographs, showing photo albums, listening to radio and reading. To help her communicate, we have used an alphabet card. If anyone has any tips and advice on what I can do to help my frail mother, please let me know. Thank you

3 Likes

@Miho hi & welcome to the community. Sorry to hear of your mum’s stroke & all the problems that she has as a result.

There are many posts on the forum drom carers but I will tag @ManjiB into this post as he is caring for his mum who is older than your mum but positive things have happened and continue to do so.

You can also use the search tool :magnifying_glass_tilted_left: above and either search for @ManjiB under the user option or search for carer under the topics section.

Wishing you all the best

Ann

2 Likes

Hello @Miho and welcome to the community.

I am sorry your Mum has had a stroke and is having difficulty dealing with the consequences.

As Ann, @Mrs5K has said (thank you Ann), I am indeed a carer for my Mum who had her stroke her late 80s and she has survived to tell the tale. To start with her stroke was at the extreme end of the bad strokes and left her right side paralysed and with aphasia. More than two thirds of her brain was damaged and she was not expected to recover much if at all and that was if she actually survived. We were told to say our good byes and to grieve for her whilst she was still in hospital.

We refused as we know that is not how Mum expected things to end. She had made it clear before the stroke that she did not want to die in hospital and she did not want to be cared for in a nursing home. This was her “forward planning” despite actually being an extremely fit and active person and mentally very alert. Nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening to her but at least we knew what were we supposed to do.

Mum was always a fighter and had a strong desire to live a happy life and so despite what the stroke did to her and the impression the medical profession had, she fought from the word go for her survival and thankfully her willpower and mental strength pulled her through.

Her wish was to be cared for at home and so we brought her home after a three months stay in hospital. Because she is a fighter, it was not so difficult for us to care for her or help her in the sense that she has always remained very positive throughout and she rarely complains about any pain or anything other than when she isn’t attended to in a timely manner - she is double-up carer dependent.

To help her we just talk to her, have music in the background, make sure she is fed and watered and she is freshened up (she has to wear a pad as she is double incontinent due to the stroke).
We have tried many things such as those you mention and in the main they have not been of much help as Mum does not take interest in such things. For her, if she has someone to talk to her or sit with her she is very happy.

Emotionally she is very strong.
She knows or recognises what the stroke has done to her and how her ability to communicate and so she very rarely gets upset or angry if people don’t understand her. She has found ways to cope with this - she accepts that for now, she has to accept the conversation is going nowhere and she will park it for later or try again. The only time when she gets upset or angry is when people (carers) are clumsy and/or disrespectful. She does not suffer fools gladly and she will let them know in her own words.

How might this help your Mum?
It’s hard to say because as from the above, we find it incredibly easy to care for Mum and she is very easy to care for as long as she is treated with respect - i.e. as a person, not necessarily a stroke survivor. If someone forgets this or don’t recognise this and treat her as an object, hell breaks loose and she lets them know.

To start with Mum was frail - she was in bed on her back for a month with only a drip keeping her hydrated and essential vitamins and minerals. This made her quite weak and she lost a small amount of weight ~ 10% of her pre-stroke body weight. Once she was put back onto feed, she got stronger and put the weight back on and she has remained pretty much in her pre-stroke weight range since.

We help her to sit out in a riser recliner chair and take her out in a wheelchair - these things we started when she was in hospital.
We do light physio and movements to help her physically.
Mentally, there is not much we can do as she was never one for gadgets or puzzles and so she does whatever she can to keep herself alert and active.

A lot of Mum’s recovery is down to “self-help”. She has had little to no outside help of note, but she has worked out things for herself and continues to do so. Any outside help is a bonus. In some ways it is a bit of a myshetry as to how she is where she’s at today, given where she started from and given the hurdles she has had to overcome.

She has access to carers 24/7 (family) plus outside carers.

She is given lots of tlc, cuddles and she is reminded how amazing she is and how she continues to amaze and over-achieve. We think this might have given her an additional encouragement on top of the self-belief and the will to live she has always had. She has never been a quitter and she is not about to start.

I don’t know how your Mum feels about things and how she sees her current condition but if she accepts and is willing to have a positive frame of mind there is no reason why she cannot do what Mum has done. Six years ago, Mum was lying in a hospital bed and written off, today she is still around and continues to improve. There have been a few set backs but on each occasion, it has been that same “never-say-die” attitude and her mental strength that has pulled her through and she comes back stronger. Today she is continuing with her life within the constraints that have been put upon her and there is no reason why she may not be walking and talking again. She has that will and desire and nothing is going to take that away from her.

When you have someone with that frame of mind, I guess it helps to care for them and I have to say it is a joy and hugely rewarding. Being Mum’s carer has been the most challenging and most rewarding thing I have ever done and am likely to do.

I am not at all sure if this is of any help to you Miho, but I guess I (and my co-carer) have been lucky in that we are caring for someone who allows us to care for them, understands the limitations and constraints we operate in, is very forgiving and very grateful.


Questions for you Miho
Have you got access to all the help and support you are entitled to?
Have you get friends and family who can help?
Does your Mum have a clear vision of where she wants to be? For example, my Mum wants to carry on living and is not bothered by the constraints the stroke has put on her and she never complains how she can’t do things because of the stroke - she tries to find ways to do the things. I am aware some people might take the view “it is not worth living like this” and “give up” which makes it that much harder for carers.
Are there things you Mum has said she would like to do?
How much is your Mum willing to invest in what it takes to be a stroke survivor and lead the life you want to lead?

If there is anything you have found useful in this, I am pleased. If not and there is something specific you would like to ask, I shall be happy to offer my views and any guidance from lessons learned from over six years as a carer.

I wish you and your Mum all the very best.

Namaste|
:pray:

1 Like

Thank you for the tip - I will have a look

2 Likes

Thank you so much for taking time to share your amazing story. In answer to your questions:
Mum is in a care home and is receiving the care that she needs including regular rehab that she is entitled to although it sounds like staff have concluded that she is too weak to do too much rehab which is disappointing

My dad visits her every day and other members of the family and friends come regularly.

I have not managed to talk to her about what she wants to do. She has cried out saying that she doesn’t want this but I am not sure if that means she doesn’t want to live in the state she finds herself in.

She has said she would like a phone and a radio but she is unable to operate them by herself so she needs either dad or me to operate for her.

If I may, I have more questions - is your mother able to take food by mouth. It sounds like she has aphasia but you are able to communicate. In my mother’s case, care home staff have stopped feeding her food because they say she is not swallowing well and feeding her could cause complications including pneumonia so she is surviving on a drip like your mother was immediately after the stroke. Has her aphasia got better? Is that why she has come off the drip and started to take food by mouth?

What’s upsetting for me is the fact that the doctor doesn’t seem to think mum has any chance of recovery but your mother’s story proves that they are not always right.

2 Likes

Hi @Miho and welcome to the forum. So sorry to hear about your mum’s stroke. At this early stage it’s very hard for anyone to predict how much recovery your mum might make, only time will tell as the brain heals over the coming months. And the last thing either of you need to be given is falls hope because it is just too early to tell.

But the doctors and care staff are not wrong. Your mum will be very weak after her stroke and very susceptible to illness and infection. The last thing she’ll want is a dose of pneumonia, which leads to pleurisy. I’ve had both and she really does not need any of that.

Manjib’s mum can’t speak, can’t care for herself in any way, and is only starting to be spoon fed little bits of food and water. But her life sustaining calories and medication are still peg fed. And that’s 6 years after her stroke! Yes, small improvements have been made, just nothing significant enough yet. That gives you an idea of how long stroke recovery is. Mine was mild by comparison but it has taken nearly 5 years of recovery and there are still improvements to be made.

Lorraine

1 Like

Hello Miho - I think doctors tend to err on the side of caution.

I can’t say I have too much knowledge of others, but from what I have seen with my Mum and other Stroke Survivors who have been pigeon-holed like her, we have to fight for our rights (her rights) and not to accept “No” for an answer.

At this point, I am going to try to bring in a carer who shared similar experiences with me and who felt like I do that we (our Mum’s) are not being given a fair crack at the whip.

@EMG72 has posted on this forum and held similar views to us and faced similar challenges and fought similar battles to try and get the best for her Mum. Sadly, her Mum passed away a few months ago so I don’t know if EMG72 might still be available to share her thoughts with us.

I would like to expand on this further and respond also to your questions, but I have to do things for Mum right now. I hope that if EMG72 gets this message, she might be able to spare time to come back and share her thoughts with us.

Take care for now.
:pray:

1 Like

Hello Miho,

I have some time now to respond to your last message and I will share with you my thoughts. Remember this is what happened to us and what we did. It worked for us, but we are all different and we have to find what works for us as there aren’t any magic solutions or one cap fits all solutions.

  1. Our number 1 rule was and is, never take anything that anyone says at face value (that includes what I say - might sound odd for me to say that, but I have to qualify this is our experience and it may be clouded by things that may or may not be relevant to others).

  2. When anyone told us it is not possible or it can’t be done, we always asked why? If needed, we asked for a second opinion. In this situation, it is very easy for us to get “bullied” into accepting things or the situation can be manipulated. Sometimes, we think these are experts and they know what they are talking about. But no - they don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to my Mum. They have been proven wrong many times from when they said she would not live long or get better.

Now, I will look at your concerns/observations and respond.

This happened to us and we made the mistake of not pushing back more than we did. Sadly for us, the was in the hospital environment and rehab was available in bite size sessions. They tended to occur, or if I was to be cynical, I could suggest they were designed to take place at a time when they knew Mum would not be responsive or unable to cooperate. For example, they attempted to do things during the first month when Mum was in bed and very weak - she had been nil-by-mouth and only hydrated and essential minerals via IV drip. She had no food during this period. Imagine how anyone can have energy to do anything with no nutrition inside them and also having just had a massive stroke that damaged more then two thirds of the brain.

Note to you: First check with your Mum. You have to gauge whether you Mum is capable or willing to engage. If she is, then you must challenge the conclusion she is too weak. There are things that can be done to build up strength. You should push for the rehab, but only if your Mum indicates she can or would like to do it. Staff saying she is too weak is not acceptable.

This is good and you must try to do more of this. The more your Mum engages, the better. But beware, there may be times when she will want to rest and not engage - this is different and you just need to manage this and allow her to recharge. But contact with and encouragement from family and friends will help her. We kept encouraging Mum, but we also made it clear, it was her choice if she wanted to do something and when she wanted to do it. She was under no obligation.

OK, this is important and you should try to do this asap.
We already had this conversation before Mum had her stroke and so we knew exactly what she wanted to happen when she ended up needing care. It’s just as well that we had had this conversation as it helped us to try and get the right care and support for where and how she wanted to be cared for.
You or your Dad should sit down with your Mum and have this discussion. Try and ascertain exactly what she would like to do. Where and how she wants to be cared for. Is it that she does not want to be cared for in a nursing home? Does she want to be cared for at home? If she wants to be cared for at home, is this feasible? Is it realistic? It seems she might need maximum care support and that might include or will include family members doing caring.
We care for Mum 24/7 at home - it is not easy and it is a full-time 100% commitment from me assisted by my sister plus agency care workers 4x a day. It is a big commitment, but if that is what your Mum wants, then can you do it?

I am no expert, but I believe you can get voice operated gadgets these days, so for example you can get radios or speakers and you can say “Play Classic Radio” or something like that.
Not too sure on the phone, but again there may be options.
Whilst nor ideal, as she is in a care home, if she has the radio and phone, I would hope the carers would be able to help out with that.

Mum has been nil-by-mouth ever since she had the stroke and she is fed via a PEG tube. She was initially fed by an NG tube after 1 month of nothing. We asked the consultant why she was not being given any food when all other patients in her ward were getting 3 meals a day. We had to ask!!!
After our question/complaint, Mum’s feeding started, first using an NG tube.
An NG (nasogastric) feeding tube is a thin, soft plastic tube inserted through the nostril, down the throat and esophagus, and into the stomach. It is used to provide liquid nutrition, fluids, and medications directly into the stomach when a person is unable to eat or drink enough by mouth.
Then after a month (NG is for short term use), she had a PEG tube inserted and this is how she has been fed and watered since.
PEG (Percutaneous Endoscopic Gastrostomy) tube feeding involves inserting a feeding tube through the skin directly into the stomach to provide liquid food, medicine, and fluids.

Miho - this is not right. You must speak to the stroke consultant or GP and ask why she is not being fed. She can be fed via an NG tube to start with and then if as in Mum’s case, she still needs help after a month then she may need to have a PEG tube inserted so she can be fed and watered. Yes, she may have problems swallowing but not feeding her is not the answer.

So what are they going to allow her to starve to death? (Sorry to put it so bluntly, but that is how we out it to the consultant responsible for Mum).
I will caveat this by saying, there may be a good reason for what they are doing, but for me, it just doesn’t seem right.

Yes, they will / should do a risk assessment, but I see no reason why she cannot be fed and watered safely e.g. with an NG tube to start with.

Question:
Did she have feeding problems before she was discharged from the hospital? How was she fed in the hospital following her stroke?

My Mum’s aphasia remains but this is not related to her feeding. The aphasia is about not being able to communicate using language - Aphasia is a language disorder that impairs a person’s ability to speak, write, read, and understand language.
So Mum can understand what we are saying but she cannot speak or talk in a language we understand - when she speaks, it is just sounds that come out of her mouth, not words we would understand.
Mum was put on NG and PEG feed due to the same concerns about not swallowing safely. Sadly, Mum was never supported to get back to eating or drinking by mouth. We the family are doing this now. It has taken a long time, but a couple of months back, we managed to get Mum to drink water by mouth. This is just a start and there is some way to go because the risk of not swallowing foodstuff properly has not been assessed. She can drink water and is she swallows that down the wrong tube, the risk is low. As far as we have seen, she is swallowing safely. For now, we continue PEG feeding. There are other issues we are dealing with and they are a higher priority. Having been PEG fed for over six years, a few more weeks, months probably won’t make that much difference :slight_smile:

Miho, believe me, we had the same issue.
My Mum was nearly 90 years old and the consultant told us that there is little chance or no chance of recovery if indeed she even survives. Again, call me a cynic, but that is why we believe she was not even given any food or water for a whole month - there was no reason why they could not have carried out the risk assessment for NG feed sooner and would they even have done that if we hadn’t challenged them?
My sister was crying and getting upset each time she met with the consultants who did nothing to be supportive.

Continues on next post …

Continued from previous post …

________________________-
Where do you go from here?

  1. Do not accept what you are told without asking why
  2. After the why has been explained, you need a second opinion
  3. Your Mum’s desire and ability to respond is key to this. She needs to or you need to convince the consultants, she can recover.

I am saying all these things, but of course I could be completely on the wrong track as I don’t have full knowledge of your Mum’s background. E.g. how was she before she had the stroke?
Does she have comorbidities that might be complicating things?

In closing, I can only hope that our story might help you understand that it is not the end of the road just because the doctor says so or staff think there is a risk. These things can be managed, but you have to know how your Mum feels about this. Does she feel she can recover? Does she want to recover?

It’s a hard conversation or two you are going to have with first your Mum and then the consultants.

It’s only fair that in closing, I ask, “Are we comparing apples with oranges” when it comes to your my Mum and your Mum?

I don’t want to give you false hope, but by sharing with you our story, it is my wish that you are able to take from this something that will help you to decide what is best for your Mum and how you can best go about trying to get that for her.

I wish you and your Mum all the best.

Take care.
:pray:

Thank you for your replies and sharing more of your story. I should have added that my mum had made it clear that she doesn’t want to have a food tube inserted so the food-tube options was offered but we have refused that. I guess my main concern is to make her as comfortable and at peace as possible in her last days. I will take on board your tips and wisdom and will try my best to care for my mum. Thank you again for your help and all the best for your mum, yourself and your family

1 Like

Hello Miho - thank you for the update.

Based on everything we have discussed, I am satisfied there is nothing more I can suggest that might help you further.

I feel you and your family are doing everything that might reasonably be expected and beyond. Your Mum has clearly made her wishes known to you and they are being fully respected. She is in a care home which is probably the best place where she can be to be looked after in her last days. She is in palliative care in an environment that has access to carers and medical professionals which should ensure she does not suffer unnecessarily.

You are already doing this, but just as a reminder, all that can be done now is for you and your Dad and family members to be there for her to comfort her and let her know how much you love her. You can stay with her, talk with her, remember good times and memories, hold her hand and just comfort her. Let her decide what she wants and if she is too tired and just wants to rest then let her.

I am happy that you are doing all you can and your Mum is being cared for in the way she wants to be cared for. More than that we cannot do.

Wishing you and your family all the best as you care for your Mum at this difficult time.

Namaste|
:pray: