Banging Head Against a Brick Wall

Hello Folks!

This is an aside to the post I made earlier and has an important observation / message that deserves it’s own post.

Linked post : Problems sleeping - only when lying down. Part Ducks

Mum is a stroke survivor who had her stroke in the late 80s (her age and not the calendar decade) and isnoe in her mid 90s.

The above is important because it helps explain why I am banging my head against a brick wall, though it no longer hurts!

Ever since she had her stroke, Mum has been discriminated against purely on the grounds of her age in terms of the help and support she has been afforded as a stroke survivor. Had she been given the “usual” care and support she would likely be what some people on here call normal or their old self. Actually, she would something even better because that’s what Mum does.

She has survived and improved herself to the condition she is in today and yet, as recently as two days ago (Sunday night and Monday) health professionals pretty much ruled out any tests she might have benefitted from to identify her latest health condition (see linked article). The reason why she would not be tested - her age.

111 - On call doctor visited and did standard obs (BP, heart, lungs and O2) declared her strong. Also asked if, considering her age, she should be treated at home (palliative) or in hospital (agressive) if needed. We requested hospital if this meant the best care she can expect.
He noted our request.
Having found nothing that concerned him and Mum in rude health (which in some ways she was at the point of testing, but she was not on a feed and she was not lying down), he said he would make a referral to the GP and ask them (GP) to make referral to hospital for:

  1. Ultrasound (UCG)
  2. Abdominal and Vaginal examination (PV)
  3. Comprehensive blood tests
  4. Fungal infection medication (aside minor issue).

Next day - GP visited and discussed having received above referral from 111 overnight duty doctor.

With regards to the 111 doctor tests the GP suggested all those would be “invasive” and stressful for Mum (her age).
Advocates (family) said “she (Mum) is a young 90 something”
GP - but she’s still 90 something - tick box says 90 somethings should not be considered for “stressful” tests.
Upon further interrogation from advocates, GP said she would still be offered tests but it would be up to the consultant examining/treating her if she would “qualify”. We know what that means.
In the end, the GP somehow by-passed all of the above and instead made a referral to the hospital gastro team for an examination of the PEG ( percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy) tube as this is the likely cause of the troubles. Somehow during the discussion, the GP had managed to turn the conversation, point of focus on the PEG tube.

Note:
Mum’s medical notes say that the Gastro consultant has already said he is unwilling to do any medical procedures on Mum’s PEG tube. Is it just coincidental the GP has suggested a referral to the gastro team who clearly do not wish to treat Mum any further and will recommend palliative care?

The GP did make a referral the Gastro team and they made a referral to the Abbott’s Nurse (Abbott is a nutritional specialist company that works with Dieticians and who are specialists in PEG/PEG tubes).

Abbott’s Nurse came along the same day (credit to her - Abbott’s has been one of the better partners involved in Mum’s post-stroke care).
Abbott’s nurse did her routine tests and concluded the PEG tube might be dislodged and hence causing the problems.

Advocates sighed (in silence) as this was clearly a mis-diagnosis - sorry but there is no way the tube can be dislodged (trust me, I am Mum’s carer and have been for the entire time she has been cared for and I know pretty much all there is to know about her condition and support equipment/aids) and I know when I smell BS when it comes from the so called specialists.

Anyway, with no point in arguing, we went along with the nurse who assured us she would make un urgent referral to the GP to make a referral back to the hospital (protocol dictates this is how it happens i.e. Abbott’s Nurse, although specialist in this and who works closely with the hospital cannot make the referral directly).

Bottom line, Mum will never be treated again if it means the procedure is “risky” or stressful.

Btw, the GP gave a stressful procedure example viz a comprehensive blood test (as suggested by the 111 doctor). Seriously, a blood sample being taken is going to stress my Mum? My Mum is the sort of person who would have surgery without an anaesthetic, but will anyone ever listen?

Wait, I think someone else has asked this question on this forum quite recently.

Yes, I bang my head on the wall because that is all I can do, but I feel no pain. I don’t know how I can convince someone who has taken a Hippocratic Oath to honour it.

Thank you for your interest.

Up the Stroke Survivors!
Up the Carers!
Namaste|
:pray:

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i just don’t know what to say, stroke can be so cruel. Your mother is so lucky having you on her side fighting her corner.. My mother is 96 and is currently waiting for a hip replacement. Luckily she has the mental capacity to argue for herself.

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The thing is Janet - once the doctors put their foot down it is hard to get them to budge.
The consultant refusing to operate on Mum did just that. He insisted it was too risky and he would not do it and it was unlikely an anaesthetist would be found who was willing to anaesthetise Mum. I asked for a second opinion (his manager was unlikely to go against him) and a referral to another hospital was likely to take time. This was two years ago and we had to back down because we did not want to upset Mum (she was present when we had the conversation and knew full well what we were discussing). In the end they did a “third” option (their least risky offering) which was better than nothing and has been ticking along 'til now. Quite frankly, he didn’t expect this to work as well as it has and he did it to “shut us up” - we had a full blown argument in the ward and the ward sister later congratulated us for standing up for Mum against the consultant.

I hope all goes well with your Mum and you are right about the ability to represent yourself as then you can also get further backing from family if required.

:pray:

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@manjib My heart goes out to you and your family :revolving_hearts: What a dreadful time you have all had and yes GP’s forget about the oath. I have a family friend who took early retirement because of all the changes with the GP system and how they were now to treat patients He stands by his oath and it does not mean how we are now taken care of. Have as good day as you can with your family and your mum sounds like a real strong Mum just like my Asian brother & sisters mothers. :folded_hands:

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This is turning into a mini blog (not sure I know what I am taking about re blogs - I knew of Joe Bloggs, but that’s about it). If I didn’t laugh, I’d cry (for help).

Mum has now had 3 seizures this morning within half an hour (not suggesting this has anything to do with the actions that were/were not taken by doctors over the weekend).

I called GP and requested as referral to Rapid Response to get blood tested (GP on Monday chose not to). Another doctor in the practice has decided it is time to take Mum to A&E as Mum might have had mini strokes.

This story continues …

… stay strong friends. We are :slight_smile:

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@ManjiB :revolving_hearts::folded_hands: :revolving_hearts: You and your family are in my thoughts.

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Thinking of you and your mum, @ManjiB. Good luck.

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So sorry to read all this.

It is so distressing for you.

I have

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So sorry to read this, it is so distressing for you.

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Sorry to hear all this ManjiB. Thinking of you and yr Mum and all your family. Please say how things go if you can? Look after yourself friend.

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Sorry to read all of the above. I hope you got somewhere with A&E. Thinking of uou all xx

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very sorry to know all,thinking of you**ManjiB** & your mum & family,take care your self please

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So sorry to hear that you are still struggling to get your Mum the treatment that she deserves.

Sending positive thoughts and thinking of you and your family.

Regards Sue

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Hello folks!

Just a quick update. I have lost track of time but when we got to A&E it was a horror story. The paramedics warned us it was busy as they had already been on duty for a while. They also said 12 new doctors had joined (his words were “fresh meat”) and they were running around clueless!

We had to wait 45 minutes outside the hospital as there was already a queue. A nurse came and asked the paramedics if they could hold Mum in the ambulance due to the backlog. Paramedics said it was against NHS’ own rules but “common practice” in some hospitals. He also said this was the busiest A&E hospital in the country and made worse by another local A&E having been closed down recently pushing the load on this direction.

We were taken in after about half an hour in the ambulance and a doctor had visited to an initial assessment to make sure it was not an emergency emergency. Though taken in, that was just to book us in and join the “official” queue.

So there we were just inside the doorway - literally. Mum was lying on the trolley just inside the entrance and ahead of us the corridor was choc-a-block with patients on trolleys, on chairs, wandering around.

As we waited, Mum started to get agitated - it has been 3 hours or so since her meal and last pad change. Knowing her pad was soiled and remembering the rule to ask for a pad change, that’s what she did. She started “calling out” and of course the longer she waited, the louder it got. At home we would have dealt with it almost immediately. So lying in the corridor with no pads, accesses to changing room etc. we just waited and I tried to get her to understand we were not at home and she would have to wait.

After about an hour or so, the paramedics who had dropped us off returned with another patient and we had a quick chat. I mentioned Mum’s distress and one of them went and had a word with the nurse who said they’d help as soon as the “room” became available. After another hour or so, still no change.

Then a little surprise - we got taken in for a CAT scan, but Mum was still agitated about her pad. So she continued her complaint but nothing could be done. After another wait outside the CAT scan room she was taken in and the scan was done and it was back to the queue and still no pad change. Then finally she was taken for a pad change and re-joined the queue.

Of course being nil-by-mouth, she has had no drink or food and she is lying a transfer trolley on her back when she normally gets turned if lying in ned to relieve her.

By now, one of the “fresh meat” had started taking bloods and asking questions etc. She really was clueless - couldn’t find a vein to fit the cannula and so on. But Mum just waited, what else could she do?

Well as it happens, she could have another seizure!

Having spent over six hours in the trolley and still in the corridor, just before 9pm Mum started to have a seizure and I called for help. Much to my horror, got no immediate response other than puzzled looks from the nurses and HCAs. As she was already lying on the trolley and I could not turn her onto recovery position, all I could do was try to keep her safe on her back.

Luckily, as with the other strokes earlier in the day, this too was about 2 minutes in duration and then it stopped. Rookie doctor went away and after some time she was given some anti-seizure medication to “reduce risk of another seizure”.

Mum calmed down and then we were taken to an observation room at around 10pm away from all the mayhem outside in the corridor.

Mum was settled in for the night.

And so the story continues …

… as this was meant to be a quick update and because I’ve only just started, I will just end by saying Mum was eventually transferred to a proper medical bed later on that evening and she slept through the night. This was the first time she has slept through the night in two or three weeks.

For now, all is well. Tomorrow we find out what the plan is to get to the bottom of her troubles.

A bien tot mes amies!
Tot ziens!
Namaste|
:pray:

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Good morning ManjiB

I am so sorry for your mums experience - it’s wrong isnt it? Now I massively support the individuals in the NHS but they really are not given the resources they need it must be very stressful. This is not the place for politics so enough said!

My wife had similar to your mum but on the ward(very long distressing story) ….

So relieved yr mum did get comfort and relief eventually she is lucky having you to fight for her - tho again you shouldn’t have to battle when you are so unwell and vulnerable. I am lost for words really. Please say how things go for your Mum ManjiB if & when you can? I will be thinking of her and you all i think we all will.

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What you describe sadly, sounds like a normal day in A&E lately. I feel sorry for the staff as they just don’t have the resources they need but when it is you in that situation it really is unacceptable. Can you imagine if you had no one with you to advocate for you.

Sorry to hear your mum has suffered further seizures. Hopefully the meds will keep her seizure free and things can start to calm down and settle. It is good that she got a good nights sleep for the first time in a while. I wonder what the difference was – maybe the seizures had just worn her out. I hope you get a plan from the on the way forward and that the plan is an acceptable one. Keep strong and use the opportunity of her being in hospital to recharge your batteries a little bit too.

Let us know how it all goes when you have chance. Thinking of you all.

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Its always horrible at A and E but this is the worst experience I have heard.

So glad your Mum has got through it and managed to slerp through the night, that is a big positive.

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So frustrating for you all. Will pray for you and yours and hope your Mum receives appropriate care and improves soonest.

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Hi @ManjiB, sorry to read this about your mum tragically it is an all too familiar story in the NHS today. We went through the same with dad a few weeks back when we found out he’d pneumonia. Waited 8 hours in a freezing waiting area both my brother and I covered him with jackets to keep him warm.

Hope mum is feeling better and recovering just now and that she continues to make progress. Also hope your feeling a bit better now too.

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Really sorry to read about your mum @ManjiB - this frustration gets you and just the damned writing it down/explaining it to other gives you tremendous anxiety and feelings of hopelessness. It’s strange but other people who have never ever been in a hospital don’t even understand and can’t comprehend what poorly people go through, but you know, we just have to support each other, be there for each other, try not to get bitter or upset, and I have always had my own saying that helps me a lot - I say to myself - ‘Understand that people don’t understand. If I can understand that people don’t understand, I can keep moving forward.’ Take care John aka Bert x

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